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Build talk:Team - 2 Man Discordway/Archive
Enar was working on something like this in his Sandbox, if you need some ideas. [[User:St. Michael|'ــмıкε']][[User_talk:St. Michael|'нaшк']] 15:06, 13 October 2008 (EDT) thanks, but I dont like it, mine is better. :Great isnt it? --Afflicted pikachu 16:44, 13 October 2008 (EDT) ::Errrm, Vengeance?--Liger414 talk 16:47, 13 October 2008 (EDT) :::Yes, why? --Afflicted pikachu 16:48, 13 October 2008 (EDT) ::::Maybe get a better hard res or something like Sunspear Rebirth Signet?--Liger414 talk 16:49, 13 October 2008 (EDT) :::::Well, this is for Heroes, so it would have to be Resurrection Signet, a low specced Death Pact Signet/Flesh of My Flesh. [[User:St. Michael|'ــмıкε']][[User_talk:St. Michael|'нaшк']] 16:51, 13 October 2008 (EDT) ::::::SS Rebirth on a hero you say? GG --Afflicted pikachu 16:52, 13 October 2008 (EDT) :::::::Ah yes, hero. Sorry, but Vengeance? GG I'd take FomF, same as the others.--Liger414 talk 16:53, 13 October 2008 (EDT) ::::::::A lot of player choose Vengeance as a in-battle rez for PvE nowadays because it is a full health/energy hard res. --Afflicted pikachu 16:54, 13 October 2008 (EDT) :::::::::Good monks means no need for a shitty res, just take FomF and leave out Vengeance.--Liger414 talk 16:55, 13 October 2008 (EDT) :::::::::I would be happy to give it death pact but it has minions. --Afflicted pikachu 16:55, 13 October 2008 (EDT) :::::::::Give it ANYTHING but Vengeance tbh.--Liger414 talk 16:56, 13 October 2008 (EDT) ::::::::::^ /agreed. If a lot of good players nowadays use Vengeance as a res, guild wars has certainly lowered it's standards a lot hasn't it? Or maybe you're just playing with really shitty players. Ŀ¥ЅЅΔΝ 55! 16:56, 13 October 2008 (EDT) :::::::::(lotsa EC) Ya, Vengeance can prove to be a liability in Hard Mode, and having to re-resurrect that ally will slow your team down. Death Pact Signet'ــмıкε']][[User_talk:St. Michael|'нaшк']] 16:57, 13 October 2008 (EDT) ::::::::::Vengeance is not shitty why do you hate it so much? It has full health and energy ressurect, prevents further dp and can give a pair of fresh minions after 30 seconds. --Afflicted pikachu 16:58, 13 October 2008 (EDT) Yeah, loads of EC =P. Just don't take Vengeance, I think we are agreed on that.--Liger414 talk 16:59, 13 October 2008 (EDT) ::::::::::Vengeance has to be recast and is generally shittier, face it, it's baaaad.--Liger414 talk 17:00, 13 October 2008 (EDT) :::::::::::Vengeance has to be cast once, after that you disable it and use fomf, not rocket science! You keep saying that its bad without giving any viable arguments against it. :::::::::::FoMF > DPS generally, what makes it good is dp prevention on HM. --Afflicted pikachu 17:01, 13 October 2008 (EDT) ::::::::::::Vengeance has a big recharge so you can use it once to res an ally then let them die again...=S--Liger414 talk 17:03, 13 October 2008 (EDT) :::::::::::(more EC) It can be good in the right builds, but having to re-resurrect the ally after he dies again will slow your team down, and the point of Discord is to rip through everything you face. I'd also like to see some more anti-melee (mostly Shadow of Fear and Meekness because of the AoE and the fact that you can maintain them) and maybe one copy of Foul Feast to mop up any conditions that MBaS can't get (in case the spirits get killed, or because an area might have an overload of conditions). [[User:St. Michael|'ــмıкε']][[User_talk:St. Michael|'нaшк']] 17:06, 13 October 2008 (EDT) :::::::::::::You wont be dieing often, understand it, but in case something dies you quickly ressurect it and at gets into the fight at full force + is being saved from further DP, and thats a good thing because it would have some dp allready. Get it; it prevents DP stacking on a character. After battle has passed it dies yes, you raise some minions and res it with fomf, 4 seconds wont slow you down a lot. --Afflicted pikachu 17:10, 13 October 2008 (EDT) ::::::::::::::DP snowballs, DP means lower health, for a charatcer with low AL it is bad because mobs prioratise lower health charatcers. --Afflicted pikachu 17:12, 13 October 2008 (EDT) :::::::::::::::Deaths that occur within 5 seconds of being resurrected do not count towards your DP. Five seconds is more than enough to heal and prot a newly resurrected ally. You're actually better off letting that same character die again then letting someone else die. Also, I'm saying you should use Flesh of My Flesh, not Death Pact Signet. [[User:St. Michael|'ــмıкε']][[User_talk:St. Michael|'нaшк']] 17:16, 13 October 2008 (EDT) ::::::::::::::::Its not that bad, Im talking about a wider time span. --Afflicted pikachu 17:18, 13 October 2008 (EDT) :::::::::::::::::You also say that you can't use Death Pact Signet because if they die again, you could lose minions, but it's the same with Vengeance, except they will die, so any minions they raise within those 30 seconds will be lost. I just don't see the advantages to it in this particular build. [[User:St. Michael|'ــмıкε']][[User_talk:St. Michael|'нaшк']] 17:22, 13 October 2008 (EDT) ::::::::::::::::::If they die again, you dain again and lose minions with Vengeance you can get that. But you have found and interesting point that you cant use vengence on two of your charatcer who have minions unless you cant think and thats no good. --Afflicted pikachu 17:26, 13 October 2008 (EDT) I can get dps instead of Vengeance only if there are no minions on this character, get it, otherwise you are running into a risk of loosing some of you minion wall which is pretty bad. What about Shadow of Fear or Reckless Haste? - Good aoe hexes, can feed Discord and defend from melee, in that case I will change the ress to dps to stop you from moaning. You have to have one of them anyway. --Afflicted pikachu 17:10, 13 October 2008 (EDT) if DPS snowballs, you shouldn't let someone die every 2 minutes. Also, just take a rez sig for a fast, strong rez. --'› Srs Beans ' 17:21, 13 October 2008 (EDT) Mike had made a valid point, I have made some changes to the curse discord and prot necro, hope thats sorted, any other ideas? --Afflicted pikachu 17:33, 13 October 2008 (EDT) I haven't tested it yet, but Doesn't it lack of AoE hexes? I mean like Do they spamm Putrid bile that much ? And ofcourse great job : ) [[User:Enar|'~Enar.]] hello.' 09:42, 17 October 2008 (EDT) Attack mode You'll want to put most on Guard, so they use their offensive spells (ARage, Putrid Bile...). --'› Srs Beans ' 17:34, 13 October 2008 (EDT) :Crapp. I meant to say Guard, sorry, my mistake. --Afflicted pikachu 17:41, 13 October 2008 (EDT) Guys I gtg for now so can anyone finish writing team composition up for me please? Thanks. --Afflicted pikachu 17:44, 13 October 2008 (EDT) This vs Physicals A buffed up physical can auto attack for over 100 damage per hit. Why take discord on eight players over six physicals?[[User:Teh Uber Pwnzer|''' — Teh Uber Pwnzer']] 18:21, 13 October 2008 (EDT) :Because you have room for a million prots/heals/utilities, and heroes don't play physical builds very well, tbh. I'm working on a physical build in my Sandbox, but the IA nerf hurts. :( [[User:St. Michael|'ــмıкε']][[User_talk:St. Michael|'нaшк']] 18:26, 13 October 2008 (EDT) ::Huh? 1) Imbagons make prots nearly useless. 2) Paragons do fine at healing, especially with multiple paragons on the team. 3) Paragons and rangers have an epic amount of utility. 4) Heroes are only bad at running melee, they're just fine with paragons and rangers. A paragon without PvE-only skills will usually out-damage a warrior without PvE-only skills in PvE anyway. If you run all ranged attackers, its also easier to get the damage bonus from EBSoH on more party members. 5) IA rangers buffed with Ignite Arrows and EBSoH will still out damage just about anything else even with the nerf. ::Btw, every character on this team is spending half their time spamming discord. The extra utility they get by running discord for just about all your damage is severely diminished because of that. ::See here for my physical team. The talk page also has some relevant arguments.[[User:Teh Uber Pwnzer|' — Teh Uber Pwnzer']] 18:58, 13 October 2008 (EDT) :::Teh Uber, you make me lol. :::*A Para will not outdamage a Warrior, unless the Warrior is running 7*7 attris or something stupid like that. :::**To boot: If you have your paras healing, they aint dealing damage. :::**The reason behind this, is that a Warrior can spec in 13str/14axe (or sword, hammer) and just go beat shit up. A Para will often need 10+ Leads, 8+1 Command (unless you're such an elitist to force everyone to get q8s), and the leftovers go to Spear. And Spear attacks just don't hurt that much. Or, we could make it even more fun. Get Conjures. The Para will have a 4-split, unless it doesn't care about it's shield. Gfg. :::*Prots still make sense even with an imbagon, actually, but that mainly depends on how the heroes are thinking. They often wander about and go out of SY range, meaning they explode without prots. :::Please, don't be dumb. --'› Srs Beans ' 05:49, 14 October 2008 (EDT) ::::What?! How come physicals have better healing than casters, I have never heard of w/rt or p/rt healers being any good sorry!!! --Afflicted pikachu 09:35, 14 October 2008 (EDT) ::::(EC)Unless they're set to Fight, they'll usually stay around the Imbagon, if only because he uses a Spear (and that's how heroes position themselves, based on the weapons everyone's wielding). Devona is a bitch, though, because you can't change her combat mode, and I'm pretty sure she's always set to "Fight", so she runs off quite often. A Warrior (or Dervish, which I prefer for the more constant AoE) will also deal plenty more damage than a Paragon or Ranger because of the higher attack rates and higher additional damage in their attack skills, just bring an IMS, tbh. ::::Also, to Afflicted Pikachu, Paragons can use gimmick/novelty team builds like having a million shouts and chants (namely Motivation) to trigger Finale of Restoration to Heal, and Imbagons offer the best (or one of the best, at least) damage reduction in the game, meaning you can play with just one or two devoted healers. [[User:St. Michael|'ــмıкε']][[User_talk:St. Michael|'нaшк']] 09:39, 14 October 2008 (EDT) :::::I know that they can provide best damage mitigation ingame perfectly well Mike, and I know that several motivation paragons can form quite a fortress, but they cant heal as well compared to N/Rt, N/Mo, Rits and Monks can they? --Afflicted pikachu 10:02, 14 October 2008 (EDT) ::::::'@Beans: ' ::::::1) 10 lead, 8+1 command, hmm, what does that leave for a spear? Oh right, it leaves you with 12+1+1 on spear. On my build its a bit less due to them also being the primary healers, but it adds more room on other characters. Two higher in spear would only add 8% more damage, anyway. I just now did the math, and assuming lvl 20 foes with 60 armor (which is quite low, average on hardmode is probably lvl 28 with 100 armor, making the returns even lower), its still a mere +4 damage. Bringing a conjure is also dumb, because then you don't get the benefit of OoP. ::::::2) I also don't see why "Spear attacks just don't hurt that much." The base damage for spears are 14-27. The base damage for axes are 6-28. Sure, spears attack .17 seconds slower, but the eight higher minimum damage makes up for it. And don't say that the one higher maximum damage on the axe pushes it over spears with higher crits, because unless you haven't noticed, you crit way less often against level 30 hard mode enemies. If you were talking about attack skills, your still wrong. Stunning Strike, Vicious Attack, Spear of Redemption, Blazing Spear, Spear of Lightning and Wild Throw are all amazing spear attacks that either out-damage comparable skills or bring utility that cannot be beaten. ::::::3) Bringing an IMS is not enough to make up for the loss of damage caused by moving. Did you know that you cannot attack while moving? Every second you spend moving (which is a lot in HM due to increased movement speeds and better AI), you miss out on an attack. This adds up to be a ton of damage with attacks hitting for up to 100 damage. By being in melee and forced to move around, you're also usually out of EBSoH range. Having 13 strength doesn't even make up for the EBSoH damage lost, as it only works on attack skills and only the base damage. ::::::4) Casting a skill every 7 or so seconds on two Paragons makes bringing dedicated healers unnecessary. With this, you have a lot more room for more offense (or hybrids, in the case of my build). ::::::5) Equipping a hero with material weapon and a shield makes them kite around way less often. They shouldn't be wandering out of shout range very often at all. Other than that, the only things you have to prot are warrior bosses and the occasional boss that has an armor ignoring spell. In either case, Xinrae's Weapon (which doubles as being quite powerful offensively!!!) should suffice. ::::::6) Just because you did the same...Gfg. You make me lol. Please don't be dumb. ::::::'@pikachu', no, a single paragon will never out-heal a rit, n/rt or monk. However, multiple paragons together can out-heal multiple them in terms of pure healing. The reason I added "in terms of pure healing," is this: Paragons suck at spot healing. So, even with multiple paragons, you will still want somebody on your team with spot heals (in my build's case, the n/rt and rit carry them). The best part, though, is that paragons can still deal tons of damage even while acting as a healer.[[User:Teh Uber Pwnzer|' — Teh Uber Pwnzer']] 19:55, 14 October 2008 (EDT) :::::::You know, I understand that physicals are aweasome, I like them too because they can deal a lot of damage and have high armor, spears are amazing pressure tools yes but I cant get what you are trying to tell, are you saying that this team is inferior in any way and cant deal as much damage, sorry but you are wrong in this case. Thats my point. About healing you need several paragons, to outheal one N/Rt, N/Mo, Monk or Rit but would never outheal two N/Rt for example or this kind of defense, now you are making imbagon a must have character also, this doesnt but imagine it with an imbagon.--Afflicted pikachu 08:13, 15 October 2008 (EDT) :::::::Basically, you want to take this over physical heroes because this deals same 100 damage very often, plus scary damage from the minion wall hitting mop and barbs, death nova and putrid bile which is probably much greater than even your physical build and also doesnt have to be run exclusively with imbagon but any profession so its versatile AND it has way way way more utility than physical heroes can bring. --Afflicted pikachu 08:23, 15 October 2008 (EDT) ::::::::This build gets the same 100 damage, but only once every 4 seconds. And I don't see how this has more utility than my build. I see what you mean about not requiring an imbagon, though.[[User:Teh Uber Pwnzer|' — Teh Uber Pwnzer']] 09:21, 15 October 2008 (EDT) :::::::::More like once every 3 seconds id you take casting time to an account, but in the end you still deal more damage from barbs, minions, death nova and hexes remember? As for utility your build doesnt have as much healing power, as much versatility, doesnt have prots, cant itigate exes and conditions as well, doesnt have as much party-wide healing, I not saying that its bad, hence, your build is aweasome really, well done, but srsly it cant outrun the discordway with utility. and dont call me Pikachu, you know who I rly am ;o --Some random account of randomness 18:07, 16 October 2008 (EDT) What I made Not saying it's better but that's what I threw together in ~2 minutes. [[User:Godliest|'God']][[User_talk:Godliest|'box']] 20px 10:14, 14 October 2008 (EDT) :Its good actually, but not very versatile because you must have a promise spiker and imbagon, it also could have more minions. What code did you use to make this build? I never seen anythig like it. --Afflicted pikachu 10:26, 14 October 2008 (EDT) ::Look at the bottom; Teambuilder. --'› Srs Beans ' 11:17, 14 October 2008 (EDT) :::N/A caller is Good Only For Necros, but i think it's weak. And Why So many Resurrection skills o.O ? ''[[User:Enar|'~Enar.]] hello.' 09:38, 17 October 2008 (EDT) Trial I'd move it to trail if you guys are ok with it. --Afflicted pikachu 10:46, 14 October 2008 (EDT) :The difference between trial and stub is only that in trial the build page itself is finished - which it is. [[User:Godliest|'God']][[User_talk:Godliest|'box']] 20px 10:54, 14 October 2008 (EDT) ::When can I move it to testing? --Afflicted pikachu 10:59, 14 October 2008 (EDT) :::Whenever you feel like it? --'› Srs Beans ' 11:17, 14 October 2008 (EDT) ::::I moved it. --Afflicted pikachu 16:10, 14 October 2008 (EDT) A Mes Human for Multi-target Hexes? Just thinking if you used as a human a Me/N with VoR (or any other multi-target hex) and Enfeebling blood/weaken armor (multi-target conditions) you could basically just cast the two spells and watch your heros slaughter their way through in a tiny amount of time without really even needing to ever have to cast multiple hexes which often only go up on a foe after 2/3 seconds. Glory 15:53, 16 October 2008 (EDT) :Ether Nightmare would also be a great choice to bring along. [[User:St. Michael|'ــмıкε']][[User_talk:St. Michael|'нaшк']] 15:58, 16 October 2008 (EDT) ::You know that the best thing is? It is that you can bring along just anything you want, but aoe hex makes me wonder if a really need to chuck shadow of fear, reckless haste or suffering here somewere... =/ --Some random account of randomness 18:00, 16 October 2008 (EDT) voting moar voting, less talking plx kthx. --Some random account of randomness 18:08, 16 October 2008 (EDT) I'm surprised no one has said this before and I'm not saying that it's bad, but 3 healers and a prot seems a bit overkill, no? That's basically half your team that is healing or protting. While obviously going for massive speed with discord, mark of pain seems like a poor skillchoice with the huge recharge as heroes will most likely put it on the char everyone is discording. Enchant removal instead might be useful. At least barbs can be spammed so it still has some use. 2 spirits on one char troubles me too as the hero will be casting them both at the beginning making it loose 6 seconds + aftercast. Recuperation is like ... party wide mending. It only counters bleeding and it costs fricking 25 energy. I'd kick recup and put recovery there instead, giving an optional for the discord life resto. The discord prot seems dodgy too with just shamblings. Sure, you get another one after it dies but it has a 25 second recharge....This char won't have many minions at all. At least put normal bone horrors or something giving 2 decent minion armies instead of 1 and a half. ' SazzyPooh 14:59, 17 Oct 2008 ' :Well, it could be due to the fact that afflicted pikachu was an igor/rask sockpuppet.[[User:Pika_Fan|'Pika']][[User_talk:Pika_Fan|'Fan']]19x19px 15:14, 17 October 2008 (EDT) ::obviously igor, but that has nothing to do with it. No one here fears them and there's more than enough other shit higher up ' SazzyPooh 15:15, 17 Oct 2008 ' got rid of some stuff I didn't like or thought that it was overkill, added more and better minions etc. Yes/No? ' SazzyPooh 15:49, 17 Oct 2008 ' :I agree on most of the things but maybe add some optional skills too. And ofcourse Player should take skill that does condition to make it easier.[[User:Enar|'~Enarrrz.]] hello.' 17:06, 17 October 2008 (EDT) ::Since I've seen you put my version into your sandbox, do you think I should put it up instead of the current one? ' SazzyPooh 05:25, 18 Oct 2008 ' :::Go Sazzy. :3 [[User:Enar|'~Enarrrz.]] hello.' 05:47, 18 October 2008 (EDT) ::::Vote again please xP ' SazzyPooh 05:49, 18 Oct 2008 ' ::::: Extinguish Instead of SoA on Discord Prot For Heavy Condition Spamm like Disease and etc.? [[User:Enar|'~Enarrrz.]] hello.' 06:21, 18 October 2008 (EDT) ::::::Looks nice, but malign with verattas gaze works really bad on heroes. --87.118.101.102 06:50, 18 October 2008 (EDT) :::::: Recovery making conditions last half their normal length and mend body and soul(*2) removing 2 conditions at a time every 3 seconds is enough no? Anyway, it seems to have gone back to it's "overkill on healing&condition removal and 1 minion every 25 seconds"-state so i revoke my vote :3 ' SazzyPooh 06:53, 18 Oct 2008 ' :::::::Idk, you use ~2 skill slots per character in order to pwn stuff, why not take moar hilz? x3 I just added Li Ming cuz MBaS removes conditions from one character and sometimes full party is packed with them, so those ashes preove pretty halpful considering you dont have to heal your minions much no? --87.118.101.102 06:57, 18 October 2008 (EDT) ::::::::yeye, whatever, I don't really care anymore ' SazzyPooh 07:43, 18 Oct 2008 ' ::::::::Also, out of curiosity, I just tried the malign/gaze combo on a hero w/o microing, while the hero cld possibly do it faster, it just casted it on there and gazed after death. ' SazzyPooh 08:06, 18 Oct 2008 ' :::::::::Ups, had no clue about that, atleast last time I played they were shit at using that combo, sorry Sazzy. :3 --87.106.188.238 18:48, 18 October 2008 (EDT) Hmm I personaly dont see much of a problem in having a lot of party members dedicated to healing if skill bars can afford it, and they can because you only use one skill on each bar for the kill and about 4 other skill slots to power it up. On other hand things die so fast you wont have anything to heal or prot really, actually, you wont be protting much so why not merge two bars? You merge healing and prot bars into one, so it has p-spirit, convert, dwayn's sorrow and cure hex that would be all you really need to make you happy, I knwo that you miss out aegis but, why the hell you need this 30 sec rechrge 2 sec cast 11 sec duration spell when you are speeding through the area like wind killing stuff before it can make any significant damage to you? Imho, weapon of warding is all block you would need but what you really need now is 1) Enchant removal. 2) AoE haxage etc. etc. in other words more offense so what about this. / Curses Discord 1 / Curses Discord 2. / Bombing Discord. / Sorrow Discord. Something like that, get the idea, not sure if it would be better or not, got kinda confused, also get on msn moar. :3 --83.212.134.252 18:35, 18 October 2008 (EDT) Btw Lacks ench removal and interrupts. Change one to a /Me with insp skills like p-drain, inspired/drain ench and inspired hex. Or a dom with mirror and CoF. -- Jebuscontests 20:42, 26 October 2008 (EDT) :remember you have 2 humans as well... ~ PheNaxKian Sysop 07:32, 27 October 2008 (EDT) 1 Human Player? Would this work with 1 Human Player as well? If yes would it be better than the sabway? :You need at least 2 human players, or else you have to take henchmen. crazy cow 17:20, 18 January 2009 (EST) What would be best to take of these 6 builds if there were only 1 human?130.18.21.59 15:58, 20 January 2009 (EST) :Build:Team - Discord Spam Fox007 16:14, 20 January 2009 (EST) ::Thank you very much. For some reason that does not come up when searching discordway24.233.229.209 22:34, 20 January 2009 (EST) :::Because it isn't called that why nor there is link that leads to that one as discordway. Fox007 10:01, 21 January 2009 (EST) Revamp Just an idea. Feel free to discuss. 00:09, 18 February 2009 (EST) :I'm feeling RoJ instead of Migraine. Life 00:11, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::I have NO idea how well RoJ is used by heroes. Maybe a Smite Condition/Hex spam to go along with it? 00:13, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::Heroes use RoJ really well, Migraine is meh in PvE. --Drah 00:15, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::And the lulzy energy management is good for stuff like balth aura too. Life 00:17, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::Necros in PvE are such a joke... /sigh... Uploading new pic w/ balth's + smite hex/condition + roj. 00:18, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::Lol --Drah 00:19, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::::Meh, discuss. <3 00:21, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::::Look at the build I linked to on your talkpage, tbh I think its better --Drah 00:22, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::::::Overkill on the MMs Life 00:24, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::::::Overkill on conditions, no hex removal. But hey, this is PvE! Who cares about those weird things called hexes and conditions! 00:24, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::::::::Convert hexes, +2 players that could bring them (I'll fit in some more hex removal somwhere), not really over kill on minions, most have a 25 second recharge. --Drah 00:28, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::::::::Here's meta discordway, 3 man. http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6346/gw209wf3.jpg Life 00:29, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::::::::::Lol at empty ToA. What was the point of that pic (team-wise). Hate your armor ^^ <3 00:31, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::::::::::It was Asia-Japanese -_-. Having the whole thing was just because i cba to type it out or crop it. All male sin armor sucks. Life 00:32, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::::::::::::@Life: +1. All armor sucks tbh. @Drah: Feel free to doodle with your builds too. The more input the merrier. 00:34, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::::::::::::yeah I put them together in 5 minutes. Added in more hex removal. changing prot necro because its weird. --Drah 00:35, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::::::::::::So basically, take those bars as a base, throw in an RoJ or two and maybe a dedicated healer? Life 00:36, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::::::::::::::Hmmmm... Tbh, take out the LC bar, put in the RoJ. Will put it on teambuilder if you want. 00:38, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::::::::::::::Nah, we don't need TB. What LC? Life 00:40, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::::::::::::::::talking to me I think, and LC was just for the AoE hex. and I dont really think you need RoJ in this. long recharge, small area. its not very good without a tank to ball up enemies. --Drah 00:42, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::::::::::::::::Stop failing. Life 00:43, 18 February 2009 (EST) oh and looking at the build you just posted (sorry don't mean to rip it apart :( but), you have 2 WoW, 3 copies of MoP, envenom enchantments (just not a very good skill), bitter chill, enfeeble (enfeebling blood>enfeeble), resilient weapon (not needed with WoW), no death nova?, and scourge healing (2 sec cast is annoying for little help). --Drah 00:47, 18 February 2009 (EST) :Darn you for resetting indent. Indent wars ftw! ... 00:53, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::lol, sorry. Also, doesn't only having 2 discords make naming the build Discordway kinda not true? --Drah 00:57, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::Disroj way! But I see your point. 00:59, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::Hmm, drop 1 RoJ and WoR off the healer for discords should make this work. Life 01:01, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::Big attribute spread for the teams primary healer :/--Drah 01:09, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::Well then make a discord heal or something. Life 01:15, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::11-10-10 or 12-10-8 isn't an attribute spread. 01:51, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::::Eh I prefer 12-12 spreads on my teams only source of healing, especially when you don't get runes. --Drah 02:03, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::::Wut? No runes? Life 02:03, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::::::Where do you come from? Tbh, 12-11+1+1-6+3 works just fine. And you get the 12 in resto. 02:09, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::::::@Life, no runes in resto because its a N/Rt, and @ LA i just would rather keep a 12 12 spread for energy, so you can constantly spam healing. (and I don't like sup runes on heroes.) --Drah 02:12, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::::::::No sup runes in PvE is like saying don't eat because you'll just poop it out. Backline doesn't get attacked in PvE, ESPECIALLY not with a 20 minion wall... 02:14, 18 February 2009 (EST) Keep it discordway else we already got Team - Two Man Necroway. Image:GodlyCompanion-cube.jpg 03:01, 18 February 2009 (EST) :In that case, a merge would probably be best. 6 discords is a little much tbh. Life 03:10, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::tbh I still think the build in my sandbox is the best version of this. This one http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/User:Drahgal_Meir/Sandbox#PvE_Discordway --Drah 03:13, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::Those bars you all suggested are pretty poor, very PvX-like. --Anonimous. D: 06:22, 18 February 2009 (EST) Modded a bit. Big ups to Dont for the mini bars!! 03:19, 18 February 2009 (EST) :its fine, just next time use mini skill bars so it doesn't take up too much space, you do it by doing --Drah 03:41, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::Wanted to show you the leetness of Sup runes. ^^ Mini bars don't have the attributes, which is really annoying. 03:47, 18 February 2009 (EST) Dont is haxx. --—''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' Chaos (talk) . 05:05, 18 February 2009 (EST) :Iffy, new messages at the bottom please ;< --—''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' Chaos (talk) . 05:45, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::Double posting is useless. >.> 05:46, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::then atleast make them look right :> --—''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' Chaos (talk) . 06:03, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::15+ recharge hexes and SoLS make me cry when used with Discord. =/ --Anonimous. D: 06:16, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::This is where the 2 peeps come in. All of these hexes/conditions are cover for purge/expel/whatever else. 07:17, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::Dont see how it relates to my comment. There is little point in wasting skill slot for long recharging hex if it would end after 3-5 seconds when your target is killed. ::::::I dont see any point in RoJ, I dont see any point in JB replacing Discord, I dont see any point in three copies of Bone Minions, I dont see any point in Scourge, Smite, Intervention, not enough Putrid Bile and defense. Too much randomness. ::::::I dont like anything people suggested so far. --Anonimous. D: 07:24, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::::Putrid Bile is AoE armor ignoring damage, which is never bad. --'› Srs Beans ' 09:44, 18 February 2009 (EST) some of my concerns Concerns: SoLS - D-way is famous for fast kills, that is enough to keep steady supply of energy without any need for that signet so spend thjose skills slots on better things. Bad MM's - Bone Fiends enchanted with Death Nova are pro, in my opinion it should make use of cencept in my Sandbox, main Bone Minion bomber and two assisting Shambling Horrors to reduce time you spend on exploiting all corpses. Bone Minion MM should ideally posess Dwayna's Sorrow. Lack of Spirit (fixed) - I couldnt resist fixing that, extremely common and bad mistake everyone on PvX makes when using several spiit-dependant characters in their party. 20s Recharge Hexes (fixed) - Fantastic synergy with 3-5 second kills and I cant believe it was in Great while having that problem for so long. Lack of caller - after AI Weakness nerf you can no longer use Enfeeble with normal hexes to meet Discord's condition. Surely any suggestions for thixing above prblems are welcome. --Anonimous. D: 07:14, 18 February 2009 (EST) :Not to be offensive, but I'm more curious. Have you ever MM'd/how much of it have you done? --—''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' Chaos (talk) . 11:53, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::Don't know what previous versions looked like, but current version looks strong and self-sufficient, meaning it can be properly AFK'ed ;o. Also, Chaos, what does having played a MM have to do with anything? No one plays MM anymore, besides. ::@Anon, SoLS is just backup for when you come across resistance. Considering nothing on the hero bar is really important besides discord, it probably doesn't hurt. --User:Thc 12:09, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::Playing an MM has to do with fixing MM bars. --—''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' Chaos (talk) . 12:11, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::Lol'd at that comment ^^ Gonna fix the hexes, I'll admit some of them are REALLY bad. It's kinda hard to find 5-8 synergistic hexes, so PLEASE go easy on me? 12:54, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::EDIT:@Anon: Since the Soul Reap nerf, 3 gains every 15 seconds. Meaning for almost every size of group, after the first 15seconds, heroes will need some sort of E-Management. And I heard heroes use SoLS purty well. @Chaos: Help me fix the MM bars, I epic fail at MMs. 13:03, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::Anon kinda reverted my edits. I removed Recovery and added FF so the hero has more energy and to avoid the gay 3s cast times. I added BotM which should be microed depending on if either bombing or walling. Outside of battles it shines.. Rising Bile was a fill in because I didn't want further Putrid's there, anon reverted it because he casts RB on the same target he calls to spike. Shadow of Fear is completely unnecessary with the minion wall (BotM which should exist keeps it alive on spam, bombing does the rest) and Enfeebling Blood. Dwayna's is just some pro heal when minions asplode. Mark of Pain is one of the best skills in the whole game. The first Discord can manage energy without SoLS. --—''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' Chaos (talk) . 13:14, 18 February 2009 (EST) Might take out Putrid Flesh on the Jagged AotL bar for BotM? 13:21, 18 February 2009 (EST) :Full Discord team imo, Putrid Flesh is unnecessary since minions die by themself, Meekness and Shadow of Fear don't stack, Suffering works but doesn't fit the spiking theme here, Envenom is horrible, either Rend or Rip. Get Ancestor's on the 4th guy, Death Pact signet, 2x Weapon of Warding, Spirit Transfer on healers.. And you need more minions (Death Nova too) --—''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' Chaos (talk) . 13:27, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::LOL, I only put 1 MM bar? I epic fail :/ I'll add a MM bar, take out... one of them... last bar? 13:29, 18 February 2009 (EST) Better? 13:32, 18 February 2009 (EST) :I'll reupload a newer revision of that in a min. --—''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' Chaos (talk) . 13:37, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::Out of cursiosity, who would own this build based on PvX:OWN? Drah, Life and I pretty much worked on it together/equally. :/ 13:43, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::None owns articles. No credit to Chaos, aye? --—''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' Chaos (talk) . 13:44, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::OWN says the "primary editor" when in the case of tag building. I don't know who that'd be. And you'll get credit, don't worry ;) 13:45, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::wutevar. upon making my own in teambuilder I find the mainbars quite fine with some changes I'd make... --—''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' Chaos (talk) . 13:53, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::That was a harsh edit to my userpage. And like ALL builds, there's leeway for variance. 13:56, 18 February 2009 (EST) Bars updated. See pic above. --—''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' Chaos (talk) . 14:04, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::::Thanks for killing mine. Too much heals imo 14:07, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::::The n/mo can get lost. --—''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' Chaos (talk) . 14:09, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::::::Lose the n/mo, get shadow of fear Life 14:11, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::::::Shadow of Fear suxxxxx when you have a minion wall etc. --—''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' Chaos (talk) . 14:13, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::::::::Shadow of Fear = less attacking = less exploding = less *pewpew you're dead!!* 14:14, 18 February 2009 (EST) [[User:Pika_Fan|'Pika']][[User_talk:Pika_Fan|'Fan']]19x19px 14:19, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::::::::::::MoP, Fiends no SoF =/ --Anonimous. D: 14:20, 18 February 2009 (EST) :::::::::::::If you say MoP sucks I'll directly link it at the Epic section..... --—''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' Chaos (talk) . 14:26, 18 February 2009 (EST) :still waiting for pic to upload? --—''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' Chaos (talk) . 14:20, 18 February 2009 (EST) ::Image cache is so slow.[[User:Pika_Fan|'Pika']][[User_talk:Pika_Fan|'Fan']]19x19px 14:22, 18 February 2009 (EST) wtf bar, but Anoni happy? --—''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' Chaos (talk) . 14:24, 18 February 2009 (EST) :No, I'm also very tired atm. --Anonimous. D: 16:05, 18 February 2009 (EST)